leveling after 20? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

SAS Shadow · Jun 10, 2005, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormunda

WOOT!
The next GW feature!

It creates a new instance called the MMORPG instance.
Any character created there can only ever enter the MMORPG instance.
They get to level up as much as they are able to.. (Can't see you finding mobs enough to level much over 30s anyway).

: Ok I made this as a joke but actually that sounds kinda fun.

I think this would solve everyone's problem actually. Instead of just having the 2 options of either PvE or PvP char's you could also have the third option of PvE ONLY! This would ultimately end up spliting the players right down the center... The ones who play PvP would play PvE for items and skills then move back into PvP and those that would play PvE only. Those who play PvE only would be the ones obsessed with having the most elite virtual items and the most elite virtual character so he can gloat that his virtual self is better than his virtual friends.

But please, don't take that as an insult because I too am one of those people, I just find it funny when you take a step back and realize your addicted to gloating about something that isn't even there. So bottom line is, this is a game and we all have REAL lives and you should be happy that you get a chance to sit down and relax. It's a game not a job and it shouldn't cause you stress and if it does maybe the game just isn't right for you and you should try somethign different.

But hey what do I know? Maybe this is your job and you farm items to sell for real money in the real world and for the people that buy these things... your lazy and need to get a life.

BrokenSymmetry · Jun 10, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

The whole balancing problem exists only because of pvp. So here is the most obvious solution:
-Splitup the game into stricktly separated pve and pvp sections, meaning that pve chr's cant go into pvp, and cant trade or exchange items with pvp chr.s.
-Limit pvp the same way like its done now: at level 20.
-Allow pve only chr's to progress after level 20. Meaning they will gain health, attribute points, skill points, everything.
-Increase the droprate for pve only chr's since obviously gathering gear is one of the things they like very much

OK, let's split of a purely PvE (MMORPG) instance, and let's call this instance "Guild Warcraft", or "Guild Quest"...
The point is, these games already exist. Go play those other games if that is the kind of game you like. Let Guild Wars keep its own unique game style.

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jun 10, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Because that equals everything out... same with the attribute points...

You don't design games do you?

Yea, don't ever try.

Myodato · Jun 10, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

If MMOGs were droids, then this is not the one you're looking for.

Teklord · Jun 10, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myodato

If MMOGs were droids, then this is not the one you're looking for.

LOL LOL! Lovin' that one.

Darkest Dawn · Jun 10, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAS Shadow

I think this would solve everyone's problem actually. Instead of just having the 2 options of either PvE or PvP char's you could also have the third option of PvE ONLY! This would ultimately end up spliting the players right down the center... The ones who play PvP would play PvE for items and skills then move back into PvP and those that would play PvE only. Those who play PvE only would be the ones obsessed with having the most elite virtual items and the most elite virtual character so he can gloat that his virtual self is better than his virtual friends.

But please, don't take that as an insult because I too am one of those people, I just find it funny when you take a step back and realize your addicted to gloating about something that isn't even there. So bottom line is, this is a game and we all have REAL lives and you should be happy that you get a chance to sit down and relax. It's a game not a job and it shouldn't cause you stress and if it does maybe the game just isn't right for you and you should try somethign different.

But hey what do I know? Maybe this is your job and you farm items to sell for real money in the real world and for the people that buy these things... your lazy and need to get a life.

Very succinctly put! I agree wholeheartedly.

epyonwing · Jun 10, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

There is an ongoing discussion about pvp being the main part of this game and pve as being an option to 'farm' for pvp. I would like to repeat a suggestion I did earlier here:

The whole balancing problem exists only because of pvp. So here is the most obvious solution:
-Splitup the game into stricktly separated pve and pvp sections, meaning that pve chr's cant go into pvp, and cant trade or exchange items with pvp chr.s.
-Limit pvp the same way like its done now: at level 20.
-Allow pve only chr's to progress after level 20. Meaning they will gain health, attribute points, skill points, everything.
-Increase the droprate for pve only chr's since obviously gathering gear is one of the things they like very much

Ok i like this idea BUT then there should be a PvP arena and a PvE areana where it would be like the PvP arena with just no lvl cap and that way the PvP "balance" (thats so stupid) would be in PvP but not in the PvE areana so you could choose.

And everyone that is complaining that people that are higher lvl say that they are better for they are higher lvl are RIGHT they ARE stronger then you then DO know more about it then you and they CAN help you! (this is what i do i dont go around saying that i am better then other)

Lim-Dul · Jun 10, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Can someone explain to me WHY THE HECK DO YOU NEED THE LVL CAP REMOVED? How does the lvl20 cap affect the fun you get from playing? Cause you don't get the feeling that you get more and more uber which makes you feel better in your sad, grey, everyday lives?

Bezerker · Jun 10, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

TBH a little increase in ATT points would be nice, you cant even max out 2 atrributes with the amount of points you have now.
And all of you say: this game is not about the amount of time you play etc. WRONG. How the hell otherwise would i be able to afford surp. runes, a Guild Hall etc.
Dont give me excuses, you will have to play ALOT of hours if you want to afford all of those. (or be a botter/hacker or a lucky twat which got 24/7 drops no offense :P)

Also, ive made a few chars, and tbh the 2nd proffesion is quite useless, if i focus on my primary they ALL have become much stronger then my chars that focus on 2.

Lets be really honest now, what would the problem be to increase the Atrribute points? Imbalance? WRONG since everyone has the same amount of points. Same goes for the level cap, you would NOT have noob bashing...why? Because you can only get killed by another player in the Arenas.

I think it has not been thought through about this part, and could use ALOT of work. Ppl will love this game at first, until they find out after your done with this game with 1 char,there will be nothing new anymore cuz of the lack of items, armors, levels. (even if you create new chars, the game wont offer you anything differend)

I would seriously doubt it, that if the expansion comes out, that it would sell as much as GW itself did. Cuz if the expansion would only be adding new skills, items, and areas, then its not a expansion....but a patch that simply adds some modifications to keep the people happy, for awhile.

The game is good, but could have been alot better imo. If this game was crap, i would have quitted ages ago, it has the potential to BECOME the greatest game ever made.

Lets hope it will be.

Nosajio · Jun 10, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenSymmetry

OK, let's split of a purely PvE (MMORPG) instance, and let's call this instance "Guild Warcraft", or "Guild Quest"...
The point is, these games already exist. Go play those other games if that is the kind of game you like. Let Guild Wars keep its own unique game style.

I think you're hitting the point there, to some degree.

Need I say again, the game is called "GUILD WARS." Its not "Guild Wars, in the Middle of a Jungle, But You're Not Really Fighting Another Guild, Just Some Random Monsters."

All the PvE is really only to increase the lifespan of this PvP game.

Eclair · Jun 10, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

If all you play a game for is watching your attributes get maxed, and and level go up, then you really need to stop playing GW and go grind in Everquest or WoW.

This game is about make the most of what you have, not getting more than what you need. It's about coming up with interesting and different builds to outsmart and outmaneuver your opponent rather than comparing who has the higher attribute or who has leveled their character more.

If you can't play PvE for its story, challenge, or gameplay, then you should not be playing this game. Period.

epyonwing · Jun 10, 2005, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bezerker

I would seriously doubt it, that if the expansion comes out, that it would sell as much as GW itself did. Cuz if the expansion would only be adding new skills, items, and areas, then its not a expansion....but a patch that simply adds some modifications to keep the people happy, for awhile.

I agree

New chapter is no diffrenet from new area for there is nothing new to come they cant make stronger weapons for that would make it unbalanced for the ppl that dont buy the new chapter, they cant increase lvl for that would make it unbalanced for the ppl that dont buy new chapter and if they add more missions whats the point for them you cant lvl no more skills for that and no better armor for that would make it all unbalanced so the "new chapter" as you call it is just a bigger map!

Eclair · Jun 10, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by epyonwing

I agree

New chapter is no diffrenet from new area for there is nothing new to come they cant make stronger weapons for that would make it unbalanced for the ppl that dont buy the new chapter, they cant increase lvl for that would make it unbalanced for the ppl that dont buy new chapter and if they add more missions whats the point for them you cant lvl no more skills for that and no better armor for that would make it all unbalanced so the "new chapter" as you call it is just a bigger map!

To play the game? Is that some foreign concept to level grinders? Why do people play games like MGS or Devil May Cry? Why do people buy Starcraft Expansions and Warcraft III expansions? To play the game. If you want to level grind, go play a level grinding game.

Lim-Dul · Jun 10, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Exactly - I for my part would LOVE to explore new areas, see new skills, weapon types, meet new enemies. Probably there will be other playable races/professions (hooray!) I don't care for attributes, levels. I wouldn't care if there weren't ANY LEVELS at all. Everybody would have the same hps/attribute points - so what? Besides - as most of the game happens AFTER lvl 20 this is very much as it is now and I like it.

As for maxing attributes - specialisation is the key. You can get 16 Fire Magic to rule as an Ele, but at what expense! That's the whole point of the system. And if your chars suck because you don't max out attributes, then it is probably oneself who sucks - GW is about skill combos - each attribute needn't be beefed up so much - but their combination is deadly. And GW makes it SO easy to switch back and forth between attributes. Btw. If you don't use any secondary skills then it plainly means that you have picke the wrong secondary class. ^^ From what I see only Rangers and eventually Mesmers (and the Me only at PvP! - one-class PvE Mesmers are quite weak) can be good while having a pure one-class build (maybe some warriors, though my W/E would probably own them =).

Nosajio · Jun 10, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

To play the game? Is that some foreign concept to level grinders? Why do people play games like MGS or Devil May Cry? Why do people buy Starcraft Expansions and Warcraft III expansions? To play the game. If you want to level grind, go play a level grinding game.

Hey! I play MGS to level my hanging skill!

Lim-Dul · Jun 10, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Need I say again, the game is called "GUILD WARS."

Haha - go and read your manual (Lore) WHY the game is called Guild Wars - I'll just hint at one thing: it's not because of GvG battles.

P.S. PvE is the only thing that will keep GW alive? And what is keeping C-S and so forth alive? I don't see any expansion packs - just minor updates. Ha! I don't even see any "PvE" in these games. :-P

Zolen · Jun 11, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I have not really decided what side of the "lvl 20 cap" fence I am on...
I bought the game thinking that the PVE would simply be a training ground for PVP and once I got to lvl20 I would switch to PVP.
I selected my character based on what I considered to be missing from my group of freinds (which is now a guild) chars and focused on just 2 attributes.

This works fine... but to be honest I would like more attribute points, is it because I am a lvl grinder ??, no not really... its about wanting to see my char progress, I like my character.

But as I said .. I havent chosen my "side" yet, I do see this games flavour as being more a team vs team, and thus to make a strong team you have to be smart about the characters in it.
I have however heard of a solution, which I added to:
Let people have the attribute points, when they are in a party/team/guild the overall "power" of the team is measured ... then only teams of a similar "power" can fight ???

Just an idea.. what do you think ?

Lim-Dul · Jun 11, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

This would limit the possibilities to find an opponent A LOT. I think this would even make PvP quite impossible. =)
If everybody progresses ad infinitum, then how are you supposedto find 2 exactly balanced teams? If you give a margin of error, let's say 5%, then the balance issues come into play again. We all know what e.g. a 5% morale boost can do for a team - imagine a 5% attribute difference. =)
Btw. How do you actually "progress" in CS? Or in StarCraft? GW is about skill! You progress in skill. GW isn't about progressing chars - the path to reaching lvl20 should just separate the high-levlers from the low-levlers so that experienced players don't own immediatly every new player, but each and everyone has the chance to learn the game and at lvl20 you are assumed to have reached a certain mastery.

If you are eager to watch your characters progress, then play the BEST MMORPG ever released - 0 grinding! You needn't be at your PC to play it.

http://www.progressquest.com

P.S. I wouldn't like to see GW turn into a MMORPG such as those being mocked by Progressquest.

hassoon · Jun 11, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Anyone who thinks this is a PvP game only is 3 fries short of a happy meal.

Nosajio · Jun 11, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lim-Dul

Haha - go and read your manual (Lore) WHY the game is called Guild Wars - I'll just hint at one thing: it's not because of GvG battles.

Haha, I've read it?

Funnier still is how half the game is Guild versus Guild

Funnier still is how they worked in PvP arenas into the PvE

Thats why I tend to lean towards the name reffering to gameplay and not the history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zolen

I have however heard of a solution, which I added to:
Let people have the attribute points, when they are in a party/team/guild the overall "power" of the team is measured ... then only teams of a similar "power" can fight ???

Just an idea.. what do you think ?

I like the seperate states idea better. PvE kills PvP balance. And trying to group powers that aren't equal is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Jun 11, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04	#37
Zolen Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2005 Location: Napier / New Zealand Guild: Control Alter Delete Profession: R/Mo	I have not really decided what side of the "lvl 20 cap" fence I am on... I bought the game thinking that the PVE would simply be a training ground for PVP and once I got to lvl20 I would switch to PVP. I selected my character based on what I considered to be missing from my group of freinds (which is now a guild) chars and focused on just 2 attributes. This works fine... but to be honest I would like more attribute points, is it because I am a lvl grinder ??, no not really... its about wanting to see my char progress, I like my character. But as I said .. I havent chosen my "side" yet, I do see this games flavour as being more a team vs team, and thus to make a strong team you have to be smart about the characters in it. I have however heard of a solution, which I added to: Let people have the attribute points, when they are in a party/team/guild the overall "power" of the team is measured ... then only teams of a similar "power" can fight ??? Just an idea.. what do you think ? Last edited by Zolen; Jun 11, 2005 at 12:06 AM // 00:06.. Reason: looks better :)

Jun 10, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59	#23
Perishiko ReLLiK Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Feb 2005 Guild: Divine Guardians of the Soul (Soul) Profession: Mo/E	Because that equals everything out... same with the attribute points... You don't design games do you? Yea, don't ever try.

Jun 10, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31	#24
Myodato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Guild: WOR Profession: Mo/	If MMOGs were droids, then this is not the one you're looking for.

Jun 10, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41	#28
Lim-Dul Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe -> Poland -> Warsaw Guild: Alea Iacta Est [AIE] Profession: Me/W	Can someone explain to me WHY THE HECK DO YOU NEED THE LVL CAP REMOVED? How does the lvl20 cap affect the fun you get from playing? Cause you don't get the feeling that you get more and more uber which makes you feel better in your sad, grey, everyday lives?

Jun 10, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53	#29
Bezerker Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005	TBH a little increase in ATT points would be nice, you cant even max out 2 atrributes with the amount of points you have now. And all of you say: this game is not about the amount of time you play etc. WRONG. How the hell otherwise would i be able to afford surp. runes, a Guild Hall etc. Dont give me excuses, you will have to play ALOT of hours if you want to afford all of those. (or be a botter/hacker or a lucky twat which got 24/7 drops no offense :P) Also, ive made a few chars, and tbh the 2nd proffesion is quite useless, if i focus on my primary they ALL have become much stronger then my chars that focus on 2. Lets be really honest now, what would the problem be to increase the Atrribute points? Imbalance? WRONG since everyone has the same amount of points. Same goes for the level cap, you would NOT have noob bashing...why? Because you can only get killed by another player in the Arenas. I think it has not been thought through about this part, and could use ALOT of work. Ppl will love this game at first, until they find out after your done with this game with 1 char,there will be nothing new anymore cuz of the lack of items, armors, levels. (even if you create new chars, the game wont offer you anything differend) I would seriously doubt it, that if the expansion comes out, that it would sell as much as GW itself did. Cuz if the expansion would only be adding new skills, items, and areas, then its not a expansion....but a patch that simply adds some modifications to keep the people happy, for awhile. The game is good, but could have been alot better imo. If this game was crap, i would have quitted ages ago, it has the potential to BECOME the greatest game ever made. Lets hope it will be.

Jun 10, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39	#31
Eclair Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005	If all you play a game for is watching your attributes get maxed, and and level go up, then you really need to stop playing GW and go grind in Everquest or WoW. This game is about make the most of what you have, not getting more than what you need. It's about coming up with interesting and different builds to outsmart and outmaneuver your opponent rather than comparing who has the higher attribute or who has leveled their character more. If you can't play PvE for its story, challenge, or gameplay, then you should not be playing this game. Period.

Jun 10, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42	#34
Lim-Dul Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe -> Poland -> Warsaw Guild: Alea Iacta Est [AIE] Profession: Me/W	Exactly - I for my part would LOVE to explore new areas, see new skills, weapon types, meet new enemies. Probably there will be other playable races/professions (hooray!) I don't care for attributes, levels. I wouldn't care if there weren't ANY LEVELS at all. Everybody would have the same hps/attribute points - so what? Besides - as most of the game happens AFTER lvl 20 this is very much as it is now and I like it. As for maxing attributes - specialisation is the key. You can get 16 Fire Magic to rule as an Ele, but at what expense! That's the whole point of the system. And if your chars suck because you don't max out attributes, then it is probably oneself who sucks - GW is about skill combos - each attribute needn't be beefed up so much - but their combination is deadly. And GW makes it SO easy to switch back and forth between attributes. Btw. If you don't use any secondary skills then it plainly means that you have picke the wrong secondary class. ^^ From what I see only Rangers and eventually Mesmers (and the Me only at PvP! - one-class PvE Mesmers are quite weak) can be good while having a pure one-class build (maybe some warriors, though my W/E would probably own them =).

Jun 11, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15	#38
Lim-Dul Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe -> Poland -> Warsaw Guild: Alea Iacta Est [AIE] Profession: Me/W	This would limit the possibilities to find an opponent A LOT. I think this would even make PvP quite impossible. =) If everybody progresses ad infinitum, then how are you supposedto find 2 exactly balanced teams? If you give a margin of error, let's say 5%, then the balance issues come into play again. We all know what e.g. a 5% morale boost can do for a team - imagine a 5% attribute difference. =) Btw. How do you actually "progress" in CS? Or in StarCraft? GW is about skill! You progress in skill. GW isn't about progressing chars - the path to reaching lvl20 should just separate the high-levlers from the low-levlers so that experienced players don't own immediatly every new player, but each and everyone has the chance to learn the game and at lvl20 you are assumed to have reached a certain mastery. If you are eager to watch your characters progress, then play the BEST MMORPG ever released - 0 grinding! You needn't be at your PC to play it. http://www.progressquest.com P.S. I wouldn't like to see GW turn into a MMORPG such as those being mocked by Progressquest.

Jun 11, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20	#39
hassoon Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005	Anyone who thinks this is a PvP game only is 3 fries short of a happy meal.